Leila, see this pisses me off to no end. This is really sad what you write, as it is happening today. And I bet you No one singular entity should have the RIGHTS, Copyrights, Trademarks, to rule whether they will or will not permit you a human being to have or not have a spiritual future. If you being held at gun point from a robber, and he says how much money do you have?
Do you justify or tell the truth? I do not have the exact wording, but this is it paraphrased :. Karen B, this was exactly my predicament.
Reconnection actually advertised a subscription to The Free Spirit and had Independent Scn contacts, but I wrongly assumed that LRH was still active somewhere, running the church, and that I should stick with the devil I knew the church, I mean.
I wonder how Miscavige will justify himself? So, it just kept on going. I hated it. I was very vocal about hating it. Since the OICs were public back then, it was easy to see that the supposed point of the increases, which was to increase income and raise staff pay, was NOT being done.
The GI in , 83, 84 was less. In there was a sea of people on courses all over the world. The roll call on the BC took minutes there were so many people. If that. I do not know. Thanks Jim — I might add that this policy letter was NOT included in the re-issue of the green volumes. To me, that speaks volumes. And like Worsel and Karen B. Which may or may not have been the case, but there was no comm to make that clear. Brian Good to get your full viewpoint.
And I agree completely with look at everything. And any area one refuses to look can conceal data and has power to box one in or out. Thanks Jim, this exploration is a bit cursory for me.
I have done a lot of introspection and desolving of past mind. Yeah, I slipped a gear after a couple of beers and then, later, duplicated your viewpoint. Its true, the ideals are to be lived up to.
While I am working towards understanding the whole scene, I also want to keep propping up the tech. I really want it to expand, and with full reality. It was created step by step, and not by God. Yes, the web makes all the difference. And not only the web, but blogs that can be set up and run at no charge with minimal technical knowledge. There are several extremely intense factors in play during the time period:. This is during the time period that the AMA Committee on Quackery, which began in , relentlessly pursued its agenda to drum alternative health and holistic practices out of existence.
Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for them, the Chiropractic field took the brunt of this activity and were finally able to get a judgment against the AMA for conspiracy and monopoly in It went to appeals and was upheld in During this evolution, alternative practitioners were AT RISK of being harassed, charged for practicing medicine without a license, and so on.
The American Association of Pastoral Counselors was founded in as an organization which certifies Pastoral Counselors, accredits pastoral counseling centers, and approves training programs. By he had been thoroughly discredited and if you read the criticisms leveled against him, you will find that they are chillingly similar to the propaganda leveled against Scientology.
From what I have been to research, an ongoing strategy of the APA is to attempt to re-designate all forms of spiritual counseling as a form of psychotherapy, which should be licensed under their purview.
Not only was the Independent or Freezone field faced with the AMA and APA efforts to discredit and hound their efforts into the ground, but the C of S also worked to discredit and hound them into the ground. The emergence of the Internet circa really nailed them, with the extremely anti-Scientology websites coming online, and the Church engaging in strategies that did not work and worse, opened Scientology to even more extreme criticism for censorship and militancy.
As it stands now, unless Independent Scientology take care to steer clear from any form of diagnosis of physical or mental health and get themselves set up as religious entities, they are not only at risk from the C of S, they are also at risk from regulations governing health care practitioners. What is amazing is that ANY people from the earlier time period continued to practice at all for any length of time. Betrayed by their Church, betrayed by their government, and smeared beyond all reason by the Church and by the media and on the Internet, there is little wonder that they could not make any headway.
Marty, I appreciate your efforts and the work you have been doing. I believe that without the earlier individuals that have backed up your efforts and contributed by commenting and linking and sending people to the information provided, this blog would never have gotten off the ground. I thank every person who has posted to this blog and made it a success.
And that does include the many Sea Org members who worked their heart and souls out to ensure that it would be possible at all for there to be spiritual practices such as auditing free from the restrictions of medical and psychological licensing and restrictions.
It has been an incredible, difficult and tough environment to work in, but I do believe that we are finally seeing the light of day — not just for Scientology, but for all of the spiritual and religious paths and practices that are the true hope of mankind.
Captain Bob. Incredibly, Clint Eastwood complies. This handling turned out to be so bizzare, that I ended up with the choice of completely caving in, or surviving somehow by walking away. Lucky for me, I chose surviving! I arrested a long, dwindling spiral of upset with a simple click onto Google. I know this through bitter experience.
If a robber, as you say, pulled a gun on me and asked me how much money I had, why should he believe anything I said? The CoS has finished with Reason and Ethics. Thanks for posting this interview Tatiana. I watched the whole thing. How lucky we are to count Ian Waxler amongst the Independents!
So many highly trained, valuable terminals. Marty, this is great. I feel our group coming together.
Not a bad paying job really. This is what he was paying himself more than two decades ago:. Click to access pay-miscavige-and-starkey-families-q3-a-c-ii. That pull of reach for the theta of that Goal and Goal Maker was mighty strong. It added to the decision making to stay with the Group. The LRH factor was a huge element then. Since that time, DM has cut those theta lines. To me, Mayo had nothing to do with Independent Scientology.
That issue was the single most destructive issue that ever appeared. In my opinion, it was THE reason why the fun went out of the Bridge. Missions were pouring people onto the Bridge by the hundreds!
The place was FULL!!! Auditors, Clears, OTs, were being created in abundance. Resigns and arrivals crashed, and have never recovered.
In my opinion, that ED was the greatest disaster in the history of Scientology, it completely unmocked the Bridge. Of course, the money stat crashed, and then someone had the brilliant idea to reenact that ED, and the prices began to rise again.
Today, source, the valid Dept 21 for the subject and as such for the successful Independent field is found in the materials. With legal access to the materials and rights for us to practice our religion the current Indie field and movement is ahead. With a pretend Dept 21 within the church it will continue to bleed and lose true Scientologists. DM is not, nor has ever been, source.
The simple ability to duplicate and apply the materials and maintain the beingness of an auditor and the intention to help another being become more able is the key.
No hidden standard and no ulterior monetary motive. The Independent field delivering standard tech will continue to expand. The expansion and success will be proportional to the deliver of the gains and wins available from this Tech. I agree with Jim, a bright future for the Independent Movement if we learn also from the mistakes of the past.
Someone can correct me on this if they have the issue. The cofs became an sp group the day dm became head. Those who left in the 80s were correct to do so. More so than those who took longer. Correct action of leaving is correct action. Whatever they did after that initial leaving is a moot point.
Anyway I support the bright light of truth shining on the dm forehead and up his ass. Bela, I had to receive those resignation letters too. They came into the org on the desk of the Ethics Officer. Telling him that they leave and giving the Ethics Officer their letter. Almost all letters having the same lines. I had the impression they have been ordered to do that. They seemed to be a bit robotic in what they did. Not self determined. That was also my main reason why I never asked myself if I would join them too as they had been robots in my view.
Two different groups same pattern of action. It is a shame what one can do by altering the tech and the purpose of it. Rollback is a simple action. You want to track down that idea from mind to mind to another mind and find the source of that idea.
Those that had not been trained as auditor did not understand how this works. They perverted it as thought control. As stupid as they have been they insisted on words only and excluded no verbal communication like concepts.
I think you have been told how to do that and have had a rollback yourself and thus you had to apply that in a nasty way.
Marty, Just on clearing up this true vs false either lies, twisted facts etc from ESMB and other places will your book clear up most of these questions? The data from yourself, Sinar and Jim cleared my wrong assumption on the creston point up completely, so I hope I can put analysing that period on hold knowing that a clear time-track of events will be available.
It would be cool if these areas were clear. If data will be coming forth on that I would be relieved to put the joining-the-dots-with-little-or-no-data aside. The price increases, the Finance Police, the ordering to flag of everyone who had a body to do KSW, the degredation of the field auditors and ethics terminals by I HELP, the destrution of the Mission Network, the exodus from the Bridge, all these hit seemingly one right after the other with no reason why.
We were literally left reeling! The idealism we all had about the Bridge and the future of Scientology, the joy, was rapidly destroyed, turned into fear and worry, and a very not safe environment. I was once sent to ethics because I mentioned to a friend that I thought the prices were too high.
Even the SO numbers crashed at that time, a very significant percentage were no longer in the SO. Those individuals in the field at the time were struggling with this shock. This was completely unexpected, beyond any comprehension, no way to find a Who or a Why, no understanding, just the continued hitting and hitting and hitting.
There was no way to rally together. Individuals and very small groups began to form, but no comm between them because frankly no one knew what others were doing, comm lines had been wrecked. The only one that was really known was Mayo and his groups, and they were undone. Today, the vast majority of SPs are not SPs.
Back then, as a consequence, there was a lot of squirrling going on. I think the two main reasons for all the squirreling was the percentage of actual SPs out there, and the lack of LRH material, and the inabiltiy of individuals to form groups, and groups to form organizations. The internet is just a tool, yes, but it is the tool that makes the difference. Here we can all safely comm and find out about each other, where then it was near impossible to connect up with others of like mind, unless you already knew them, or knew someone who knew them.
Also, one of the main concerns then was getting the tech out into the field. The only ones who had any were those to took their personal stuff out with them. As I mentioned in a post here a year or more ago, back then the teckies were leaving.
Now the admin personnel are leaving. The best way to survive was to keep quiet, not be noticed, because if you got hit, you got hit alone. Today, that is not the case. Someday, someone who has a comm line capable enough, should write the history of this rebellion. It would make for a very fascinating, exciting read. If written well, it would be a best seller. But, I would say that L Ron Hubbard and Scientology were the earlier-beginning and really took the brunt — in fact, paved the way for the Chiros to prevail.
You may not remember me. We were on the BC at the same time, and as a Class VIII student you did a comm ev for me that straightened out a false report that had knocked me off the BC for 7 months. Seems that you are I experienced the same thing. Yes, thanks for clarifying that! I do believe that if the C of S had not fought back and hard at that time there would be no such thing as spiritual counseling, life coaching, and other alternative practices without State licensing requiring medical, psychiatric or psychology training.
As far as I can tell, this effort has continued as an effort to denounce many such activities as fraudulent and unscientific methods, veiled hypnotism and brainwashing methods. The Talk article on Wikipedia on the Norman Vincent Peale article delves into this operation, and its unsupported criticism based on the concept of cults and mind control, a basis denounced by the APA itself in It had been spearheaded by Dr.
She is the author of the book Cults in Our Midst. The important thing to understand about all this, from a viewpoint of a Scientologist attempting to function in mainstream society, is that the operating climate has been downright inimical to independent religious practice, especially with the constant onslaught against new religious movements and alternative methods.
It has only been in the last 10 years that the operating climate has become favorable to spiritual and holistic movements and this is directly traceable to the rise of the WWW starting in the late 90s, rapidly growing in influence with the proliferation of sites like WordPress and Blogspot, both launched in which made it possible for non-tech savvy individuals to voice their concepts and ideas.
We seldom wind up where we started. Start, change, stop. Start again, change again, stop again. For me, the TA is still moving. Absolutely fascinating, Maria. Thank you. Yes, and I thank you. Very much. I joined the S. But one thing that struck me about the FSO, and Scientology of my times, when compared to the references I was reading about the Saint Hill era under Hubbard was training. Highly trained auditors are more able to keep the tech on the straight and narrow.
Well trained auditors will promote and proliferate. I even question my own teacher and somehow I think he loves it. When the knowledge is mine, it is mine. Hayden, I guess that depends on the mentality that is reading it. A good person my see it as metaphor.
A power hungry prick may see it as an opportunity. My point is that militarism and indency is a pre Miscavige reality. Anyone who was there then, knows just how big and flowing the Bridge was in those days, unbelievable by todays standards…. So true. And some of those I talked to should know better, because they were there in the 70s!
That was the very point where I myself began to sink into apathy about the prospect of ever being able to walk the full length of the Bridge this lifetime. That fact has increased my reach for the Bridge again, many-fold. Yes — the prices were reduced down when the ED was retired. The price increase also led to a LOT of unusual solutions regarding money.
Reed Slatkin was the only one who was caught. There was a huge Pyramid craze for a few months in the early 80s that caught up a few BC students as well as others. And, of course, there were all sorts of reg tricks to explain how borrowing money was okay even though LRH forbid it in his treasury policies.
This RFO cycle, just got another layer. All this data and compilation, is so important… To some degree a autobiography of those years from the terminals present would be invaluable to actually work out, with multiple viewpoint verification certainty, what occured. I received probably hundreds of copies of it from public. The way it was written impinged, polite respectful, thoughtful and humorous. The people doing this in really are us, they were the pioneers.
They even had the first indy day celebration 4th of July I lumped all the critics together in my mind to keep doing my job. Lots of people comment that it is the internet … the main difference.
I agree it is a useful tool, but a double edged sword. Everything written on the internet is viewed instantly by the COS, so to that degree they have unprecedented instant intelligent. The advantage to the critic side is, by the nature of this conflict, the critics, anon, etc. Though I find it amazing to believe I am about to say this, and I am certain I am going to get flamed for it, I believe the demise of the 80s indies movement came from from two issues, the smaller of which is the arrogance of certain key players, or feelings or demands of entitlement, something I think also exists today in some forms.
The main one was Hubbard himself. Hubbard was reviewing stats weekly and sending out advices in the early 80s. I am summarizing my opinion, it is just my opinion from my experience in RTC at that time. I think LRH realized he fucked up with the mission holder conferences and handlings and International Finance Police, etc.
I think he knew he got bad data and screwed the pooch. Jessie and Vickie Aznaran worked with me a lot, basically telling me that a lot of people got hurt, and we have to make things right, the COS has to become kinder and gentler.
This came from Hubbard. Instead he tried to quietly reform the groups that created the chaos and destruction into kinder and gentler attitudes, not limiting their power or basic authoritarian nature, so that after his death, a tyrant with no compassion could exploit the same mechanism.
That was one of the best posts ever!! Marty I wish you could focus one of your posts based on what Maria says here. You make some great points, Don — but I think your time sequence is off. If you were working for a field practice or a mission, you were forced by necessity to start focusing on more affluent people — they were the only ones who could afford it.
As with all generalities, there were many exceptions to the above. But a pattern did emerge, a huge shift from what had gone before. The training co-audit model of Saint Hill was completely opposite — most of the auditors being public and only a handful were staff in the review HGC or Qual.
You want the Bridge? Training is more work and less profitable but if proliferation is goal training is paramount. Well trained tech people promote, and safeguard the tech as they are today in a way that non tech trained people can not this is not meant as a slight. I think training is the hurdle of past and present Independent movements. There was a time in that period where precious stones etc. Later, Flag missions were sent out to give the stones back and get cash.
Silver was another scam when the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the market, a lot of Scinos decided to play that game, and boy, did they get burned. I bet some still have those bags of silver dimes, hoping to get the money back some day. Just adding this to show other data that is available the internet is a big place, so I added it in for ease of access.
There were a lot of schemes. Great idea, but when they advertised their stuff, they got busted for undercutting org prices. Same with meters, etc. When the prices were reduced, those who had put huge amounts of money on the Bridge but had not yet taken the service, found they could invoice the service at the new price, and so they had money left over in their account.
Some had LOTS. Well, scheme number two, spend that money on PDCs and books, and sell them later for a profit. Same result. A valuable person. And a fellow drummer. Miscavige mis-use of LRH Policy and his replacement there-of is the alter-is holding that mess in place. Persistence, confront and KRC will eventually reveal the truth.
I look forward to contributing to that motion on an increasing flow. Very interesting. I was not aware of the pricing situation you speak of as it was before my time. It seems to come back to greed. The point when the emphasis turned from helping people to making money; public forced to fixate on making it because the S. Ian Waxler has a very sane vp on Scientology, the past and present, and I love his final words in this interview.
And thank you Marty for this run through — as Jim Logan said, this time more things popping up. He half nails what has eventually come out on David Miscavige, but assumes there must be someone behind him no idea if that is even remotely of interest ….
Jim Logan, thank you, thank you, thank you. You put it so well. Lots of admiration to you, SKM. The internet factor is not minor. All over the world and in the same time-continuum. Internet is fast. Internet is a big factor in running the 3D engram. And it will be a key factor in the preservation of Standard Technology for future generations.
Both are thoroughly acknowledged as religions in this day and age and both imply science. There is more than one definition of the word science, and the use of science does not necessarily mean that a subject is not religious in its basis.
Fascinating that Dan and Ian both said that they think that the Church could be reformed, but rather from the outside. And this is true for me. Some of the puzzles were very clever. There were several HO scenes, but for those of us no longer that excited about them, they were not overbearing.
The story was complicated but not convoluted. If you get involved in it, you really should get the CE to play the Bonus chapter. The main game is complete enough, but the Bonus chapter… well, just play it and come to your own conclusion. Yes, the story drove the game along, but there was plenty of "game" in the game. Lots of tasks with interesting uses for inventory items.
Play in Hardcore mode for the most challenge. If you are into getting achievements, you might be very tempted to play the game again -- several of them were based on the puzzles and mini games.
Widescreen, the artwork is stunning, the presentation is excellent, the twists and turns are fun. An unequivocal 5 stars! I loved all Mumbo Jumbo games, so it was a must buy for me. I like that the graphic is very clear and that it links with Jack the Ripper! There was no map so a bit difficult to navigate and can be a bit dizzying but overall it was a very neat game.
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Secure Form Forgot your password? Cancel Secure Form. Advanced embedding details, examples, and help! Topics torrent. Reviewer: Johndotty - favorite favorite favorite favorite favorite - November 8, Subject: Nice collection!! I was searching ofr those roms, after an HDD crash.. Thanks again! Reviewer: Lelemegun - favorite favorite favorite favorite favorite - August 16, Subject: amazing upload a amazing collection of games thanks for the upload.
Reviewer: Devin - favorite favorite favorite favorite - July 21, Subject: Some imperfect roms These games are so cool! All five subsequently boarded Skyla's plane and headed to Undella Town. Page actions Article Discussion View source History. Bulbapedia is currently being updated with the new information.
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Trainers who are proud of their skills compete in tournaments. South of Driftveil City. Gym Leader! TM17 Protect. TM20 Safeguard. TM32 Double Team. TM59 Incinerate.
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